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  1. #21
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    So one of the "things" I was not really watching is the Foot Candle rating. Maybe it should not concern me, but it is what the Visual software uses as a main rating. So as stated above, bmwpower's FC was 65-67 on average. Mine came in at over 130. (The setup I am playing with now with T-8 bulbs is at a 170 average with a high of 207.) So I went and looked up Foot Candle.

    Quote Originally Posted by WiKipedia.org
    A foot-candle (sometimes designated footcandle; abbreviated fc, lm/ft², or sometimes ft-c) is a non-SI unit of illuminance or light intensity widely used in photography, film, television, and the lighting industry.

    The unit is defined as the amount of illumination the inside surface an imaginary 1-foot radius sphere would be receiving if there were a uniform point source of one candela in the exact center of the sphere. Alternatively, it can be defined as the illuminance on a 1-square foot surface of which there is a uniformly distributed flux of one lumen. This can be thought of as the amount of light that actually falls on a given surface. The foot-candle is equal to one lumen per square foot.

    The SI derived unit of illuminance is the lux. One footcandle is equal to 10.76 lux, although in the lighting industry, typically this is approximated as 1 footcandle being equal to 10 lux.

    In the lighting industry, footcandles are a common unit of measurement used to calculate adequate lighting levels of workspaces in buildings or outdoor spaces.

    In the motion picture cinematography field, incident light meters are used to measure the number of footcandles present, which are used to calculate the intensity of motion picture lights, allowing cinematographers to set up proper lighting-contrast ratios when filming.

    Since light intensity is the primary factor in the photosynthesis of plants, horticulturalists often measure and discuss optimum intensity for various plants in foot-candles. Full, unobstructed sunlight has an intensity of approximately 10,000 fc. An overcast day will produce an intensity of around 1,000 fc. The intensity of light near a window can range from 100 to 5,000 fc, depending on the orientation of the window, time of year and latitude.

    Foot-candles can be easily measured and calculated with the use of a (manual) camera equipped with a built-in light meter. With the film speed set to ASA 25 and the shutter speed set to 1/60th of a second, focus on a sheet of white paper placed in the area where intensity is to be measured. Adjust the f-stop for proper exposure. Each f-stop has an approximate corresponding foot-candle reading (see the table below).

    So, to get sunlight bright light, you would need 10,000fc!!! That is crazy!

    Any input on this?

    Cebby, I would be curious to know a few real world measurements with that fc meter of yours.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  2. #22
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Oh, one more issue I want to touch on:

    High Bay v/s Low Bay

    They say high bay is 15 feet and above, but I am right in that window. 14' at the eave and 15 at the peak, but with mounting hight I am below 15, so I am looking at low bay lighting. This is the best for my situation correct?

    EDIT: If you have a grainger catalog, there is a nice explaination of high bay/low bay height and spacing on page 710. But it says 20 ft is the high/low divide.
    Last edited by Glenn; 08-23-2006 at 02:28 PM.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  3. #23
    Administrator Cebby's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
    Cebby, I would be curious to know a few real world measurements with that fc meter of yours.
    I was playing with it last night and it wasn't registering properly. I have FC measurements somewhere related to ideal workspace levels. I think it's in my Architectural Graphics Standards...

  4. #24
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    I like the Redneck Lighting Calculator

    Ya jus keepa addin em till its bright nuf~!
    Jeff

    Scrap metal made....while you wait!

    The difference between a difficult problem and an easy problem, is having the answer!

  5. #25
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    From what I read, 100fc is a decent amount of lighting.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
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  6. #26
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Here is a chart with some general FC measurments.




    EDIT:

    And here is a lighting table for a tennis court

    Last edited by Glenn; 08-23-2006 at 05:29 PM.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  7. #27

    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
    I am avoiding the metal halides. I do not want to wait the 3-5 minutes to fire them up and where we are the power may not be the most reliable. If the power dips, I really don't want to wait 15 minutes for them to come back on.
    Well the pulse starts don't have the hot restrike delay. They start right back up and 3-5 min stuff is to full out put when it's much colder than where you live. I find that it's not a problem at all even here when it gets cold. ( before I heated the building when it was first up and it was say 10 deg in there it did take maby 60-80 seconds to get light out if them) but at normal temps they are over 50% in about 45-60 seconds. Add that to the cost I paied for the last 15 fixtures that I picked up used, for $100, I can live with a slight delay. I'm going to rewire them to 277v and they might even start faster then. I'm sure that the way I have them now with 5@ 400 watts running off an extention cord "system" is limiting the startup voltage some.

    William...
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  8. #28
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    OK, so here we are almost 2 years later, but I am still working on this:

    I found a link to a book (HERE) that states:

    Quote Originally Posted by How to build a great home workshop
    According to the Illuminating Engineering Society of North America (IESNA), the amount of light, measured in foot-candles required for a visual task increses with its difficulty. For instance, IESNA suggests that 30 to 50 foot-candles are adequate overall illumination for working around the home. Scrollsawing for extended periods of time, though, requires 100 to 200 foot-candles.

    Based on this, some experts suggest that you shoot for an overall (ambient) lighting level of 75 foot-candles with fluorescents. Increase that as needed with 100-watt incandecent task lighting.
    They go on to say that to achieve this, based on a 10ft high ceiling, you should use three 2-lamp, 40W, 4' fluorescent fixtures per 100sqft.


    I have in mind currently, to use the Lithonia 8' fixture that uses 4 - 4' bulbs. They are rated for 32watt bulbs.

    The bulbs I am eyeing are:

    Product Code: P27229
    Light Output: 2950 Lumens
    Energy Used: 32 Watts
    Rated Life: 20,000 Hours
    Base: G13 Medium Bipin
    Maximum Overall Length (MOL): 48 Inches
    Diameter: 1 Inch
    Color Temperature: 5000
    Color Rendering Index (CRI): 86
    Bulb Type: T8

    So these are a nice high Lumen, Color Temp equal to Horizon daylight, and pretty decent color rendering index.

    Entering this information into the Visual lighting software, I come up with a FC average of 97.8fc using 32 4-bulb fixtures with a total wattage of 4096watts over the top of 1600 square feet for a watt/sqft of 2.56 W/ft squared (2.25 according to Visual.)

    Now, if I cut this down to 24 fixtures (respacing them to make it even) then I get an average of 74.1fc (good according to the info above) but only 1.68W/ft squared (not good from what I have read.)

    So now taking some of the advice, I am now looking into the metal halides. So I entered it into Visual to use 16 350W lowbay metal halides. (I have not done much research yet, so I just randomly picked one in Visual.) It gives me an average of 198.9fc and 3.5W/ft squared!!

    OK, so that is a little crazy! LOL! I then toned it down to just 4 (one in each 20X20 "bay") and it gave me an error that the fixtures were too far apart per spec.

    Because of the i-beam of the building, I can not do the 3X3 setting that visual recommends as I do not want to hang the lights from the i-beam.

    So I did a 4X3 (12 fixtures) and it gave me an average of 150.9 fc and 2.63W/ft squared. This is some incredible light. Total wattage 4200W. Slightly more wattage (and therefore money to the power company) than the 32 fluorescents, but significantly more light.

    I am going to do more research into the metal halides as Will suggested. (I am hoping he still reads here and will comment as to how his are doing.) I am thinking I might be able to play with the layout, or go with a lower wattage to accomplish what I want/need at a more affordable monthly charge.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  9. #29
    Contributing Member MXtras's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Two years in the dark?

    Sounds familiar.....

    Scott
    If it wasn't for the last minute I wouldn't get anything done

  10. #30
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    No, I bought 100 feet of those construction lights. So I have 10 100W equivalent fluorescent lights in there. Not bad for general needs. I would not rebuild an engine in there though. LOL!
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

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