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  1. #11
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Right now, the inside of my building is aluminum foil. I am sure that will help.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  2. #12
    Administrator Cebby's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
    Right now, the inside of my building is aluminum foil. I am sure that will help.
    Shiny side or dull side?

  3. #13

    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
    I am kind of thinking out loud in this post, I hope that is OK Cebby.

    I went back through the Visual software and used the same HO light. (The Lithonia UN 2 96HO, again 2 110W bulbs.) But this time I used 4 per bay instead of 6. (Again the "bay" being a 20X20 square.) It brought my Power Density to 2.53W/sqft and the way it is laid out, I could always add the 2 others if it was not as bright as standing on the sun.

    By Scotts formula it gives me the 2.2W/sqft. I think I could live with this.

    Still want input.
    In the halcyon days of my youth, I could see a spider pant at 20 yards in the dark.

    Now, at 55, I never have enough light unless I am standing in the sun. The problem, of course, is that as we age, our eyes lose the rods that are neccessary to process light and we require more light than we used to. Either that, or all the welding I did when I was younger is just catching up with me.

    In any case, I didn't use the Visual software when I did the lighting in my garage, just a sense of what I thought would be OK. I wish now that I had been more formal.

    While my garage could use even more light in general, the total light equation is more complex than just lumens.

    One key contributor to making the garage usefully lit is color rendition index (CRI). It's a measure of how close the created light is to natural sunlight. Some flourescent lights have terrible CRIs and have a purple or gray cast to the light they produce. Some Halide lights produce an amber colored light that, while bright, is not very close to natural light either. In the Garagenous Zone, I chose lights that had a high amount of actual light output, but also a very high CRI. That makes it much more realistic, easier to see everything, and easier to match colors, as when painting.

    Another issue in lighting is height. Pervesely, while we all want garages with 12' celings, putting the lights up there is pretty wasteful. The same lights that are inadequate at 12' are just fine when mounted 5 feet lower. So people with higher ceilings need much more light than those with 8 or 9 foot ceilings. That's why it is relatively useless to ask the board how many lights you need in your garage: we don't know your ceiling height, the output of the lights in question, and we probably don't know you age, either. Or what you are doing out there.

    In the end, I think that bmwpower did the right thing by being more formal and using the Visual program. I think that programs like that are a good first step in calculating how much light you really need.

    Finally, I don't know if the programs account for this, but if you are just doing rough assembly you need less light than if you are doing fine detail work. That tells me that it is good to stagger the fixtures across switches so you can just have half the lights on when you only need that, and everything on when you want it to be high noon in the garage.

    But that's just me thinking.

    -Will

  4. #14
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    That is good info Will.

    I did read about CRI in the same thread I got Scott's formula from. But as I understand it, this is a bulb thing correct? So as long as I choose a good quality fixture and the right bulb with the correct CRI, it should make for a good combo, correct?

    As for asking what fixtures, I totally understand. And what works for one person will not for the next. I really just want to make sure I am not going to catch fire with a power density like 6W/sqft. LOL!
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  5. #15
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    OK, so I just did a little googling and found a T-12 bulb with a CRI of 90.

    So there always has to be a trade off right? I can't have bright and sun like without giving somewhere else. Is it just the power consumption?

    Also Will, I wanted to say that you are dead on about the multiple switches. The more control the better.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  6. #16
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    I really hope no one is getting annoyed with me. I just really wanted to put all of this together and get peoples input. (Which is helping.)

    Here is what I have learned:

    You need to look at 3 main variables in lighting.

    1.) Lumens - Light output or how bright it is.

    2.) CRI or Color Rendering Index - How true in color to the natural sun it is. 100 is the sun and also a 100W incandesent bulb.

    3.) Color Temperature - The measurement of "Visible Light." This is measured in Kelvin. There is a nice scale on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature



    So overall, I am looking at a light with 6,450 lumens, 110Watts, CRI of 90 and a Color Temperature of 5000K. I think over all it will be a decent amount of light.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  7. #17
    Administrator Cebby's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Glenn - the more talking aloud the better. It helps all of us who are noodling through this. Actually, more of this the better...

  8. #18

    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Well unless your related to bill gates I think that you might want to re-think your lighting plan. You will want the most cost effective lighting (efficient with the most lumens per watt and good color) that you can get. Totally forget the old t12 crap, also forget the 8' stuff. Most of the industry is going to a minimum of a 4' T8, and the better stuff is 4' T5 ho. The 320 wt pulse start metal halides are also very efficient. They put out nice white light too. Untill you get to the t5ho stuff with a GOOD reflector you don't get to the same light per watt. For years the 400 wt metal halide light was the standard of industry for comerical lighting ( and still puts ot lots of light for a low cost per fixture). But the above lighting is replacing it now and can save you lots of $$ running them. ( BTW I'm going to run 13, 400 wt metal halides {I got them cheap or I would use the pulse starts} in the big side of my building @4000sq ft. For general lighting, and 3, 6 bulb t8 fixtures over some areas where I really need more) I have 6 of the 400 wt lights in the first 2 bays up now and they make LOTS of light ( it looks like daylight in there)

    William....
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  9. #19
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    Just send me your "throw aways" guys!! I'm in the dark!
    Jeff

    Scrap metal made....while you wait!

    The difference between a difficult problem and an easy problem, is having the answer!

  10. #20
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about lighting

    I am avoiding the metal halides. I do not want to wait the 3-5 minutes to fire them up and where we are the power may not be the most reliable. If the power dips, I really don't want to wait 15 minutes for them to come back on.

    I will however look into the T8 and T5s. I have just always used 8 footers and old habits are hard to break.

    So in threory, 2 4' t5 HOs are more efficient than 1 8' t12 HO?
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

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