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  1. #1
    Administrator Cebby's Avatar
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    Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    Based on the discussion in Glenn's garage build thread, I've started this new thread. We'll use this thread to map out and add input for our article about making informed decisions about everything involved with effectively building your garage/shop right the first time.

    I expect this discussion will go off on multiple tangents - and I hope it does - so we can encompass as much info in one place as possible. While some sections won't apply to some (for example - building the structure - if you have an existing building etc.).

    The goal is to have a cohesive and direct path to get from "nothing" - to "perfection" (or close to it) without any wasted motion (or money).

    Thanks in advance for your input! We'll want both text and pictures to clearly illustrate the ideas we are getting across. Please use the Member Gallery here for hosting pics, so we don't have broken links further down the road. Also, I can whip up any AutoCAD drawings or Photoshop images we might want for illustrating concepts in this article, so if you have an idea, sketch it by hand on paper and fax it to me (PM me for the number) and I'll draw it up.

    Keep in mind - everything is open to discussion and nothing is set in stone (including the title which needs some work also... )

    Look for the initial outline to follow shortly...

    EDITED 8/24/06 12:10 PM EST: Rough Draft Outline Added Below - Recently Changed items in Blue


    The Site and Planning the Structure
    Surveying and Site Plans
    Grading/Removing and Adding Fill
    Regional Considerations
    Positioning your building on the site
    Planning for Water Run off
    Positioning for Inclimate Weather (High water levels, Heavy Snow/Drifting)
    Controlling Erosion
    Type of Structure and Size
    Pole Barn
    Stick Built/Wood Frame
    Concrete Slab and Foundations/Footings
    Considerations
    Finishing
    Protection
    Sealed
    Epoxy
    Tile
    "Racedeck" type tile
    Door and Window Options, Quantities and Sizes
    Garage Doors
    Man Doors
    Windows
    Skylights
    Roofing Options
    Metal Roof
    Shingle
    Other
    Exterior Sheathing Options
    Metal Panels and Corrugated
    Matching your home
    Insulation Materials and Methods
    Walls
    Ceiling
    Floors
    Interior Wall and Ceiling Options
    Metal Panels and Corrugated
    OSB/Plywood
    Drywall
    Planning the Interior Layout
    Machine Placement and Workflow
    Tool Storage
    Parts Storage
    Workbenches
    Utilities and rough-in
    Running the Utilities
    To the structure
    In the slab
    On the walls
    From the ceiling
    Electrical Planning
    Wire Guage and Amperage Ratings
    Number of Outlets and Placement
    Gas Lines

    Data/Cable/Security Wiring
    Lighting the Shop
    General Lighting
    Task Lighting
    Security/Emergency Lighting
    HVAC
    Heating
    Forced Air
    Radiant Heat
    Air Conditioning
    Fume Venting
    Compressed Air System
    Compressors 101
    Piping System Design
    Vehicle Lifts

    Please make suggestions/alterations/changes to the above. This is just a first stab at organizing all these thoughts here...
    Last edited by Cebby; 08-24-2006 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    Sounds like a great idea, Cebby. I am still working on my shop so I will be checking this out close and try to contribute as much as possible myself.
    If you are not going to do it right...Why bother???

    My retreat from work!

    http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gall...&albumid=20987

  3. #3

    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    When I built mine looked around seemed to notice that alot of shops or garages when they put the door in the end ,they out it right in the middle. Had mine offset to the side, this allowed about eight feet of wall on the south side of my over head door. Also a eight foot high door at the minimum is a must, just makes it easier to bring things in on the back of a pickup or trailer. Mine is 30 wide 48 deep. Steel lined on inside 6 in insulation all the way through. Also when I poured the floor I put 1in stryfoam r-board under the concrete to keep the floor from sweating. I wish I would of down alittle better layout of the lights. When I was building it working through the winter put up halogan lights around the outside perimiter of the wall,, later put up flourasent. Last year I did also install a security system. Mine isn't a show case but serves the purpose.
    Last edited by zonk; 08-22-2006 at 04:45 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    I guess the right way to build a shop is from the ground up.

    This post only concerns the slab.

    1.) Be sure you have adequate drainage for the foundation, and slab. Otherwise, the floor paint will not stick, and you will chase a wet floor for eternity.

    2.) You also need a membrane under the slab to keep it from sweating.

    3.) Plan your floor drains according to useage. YOU WILL have water of some form, throught your projects. Whether it be to cool down hot metal, wash down the floors, wash a car, car dripping from recent rain, etc..

    4.) Pitched vs level slab. If you have a dedicated "wet area" you can level the rest of the slab.

    5.) Floor pots. In SOME manner of speaking, you may want to tie something down. Whether it be for collision work, fabrication work, etc. its nice to have a body shop floor pot, where you can use it as an achor.

    6.) Utilities: You can have electric, water or air running under the slab, to a "station" in the middle of the slab. You can buy floor boxes for electrical. DON"T FORGET TO RUN YOUR CONDUIT FOR ELECTRICAL PANEL AND TELEPHONE!!!! I would suggest running 5 conduits. Even if you dont' think you will ever need it. I ran 3, and regret it.
    Electric, Water, Telephone, Cable, Outside air tap, intercom, etc. You want everything in its own conduit to stop EMI(?). (static on telephone, cable, etc)

    7.) Consider floor radiant heat, if you do NOT have plans for air conditioning. You CAN cool the slab with groundwater, but you get higher levels of interior condensation.

    8.) When pouring your floor, the curing agents will affect your epoxy coated floors, meaning it has to be shot blasted off. Talk to you concrete supplier for suggestions.

    9.) Control Joints in the floor can not be missed!! As soon as the floor will support weight (usually after 16 hours) you need to score the floor to keep it from cracking. It takes a diamond blade (dry) to cut 1/4" deep. You need to make squares, so to speak, as concrete , from MY experience, will crack if you don't. I like to keep the scores about 15'x15' max. Be sure to incorporate your scores near the floor drains, and door openings. The floor WILL crack, but it will be hidden in the control joint.

    10.) If you are "post pouring" (after the building foundation , or poles(or polebarn) are set, BE SURE to use some sort of foam material to allow the slab to be independant of the structure. You don't want the floor, WHICH WILL MOVE WITH EXPANSION/CONTRACTION to "grab" your block or poles. Sill seal (8" x1/8" foam that sits on the concrete sill before framing a house) is an option. Either use dabs of silicone to hold it to the block, or staple it to the rat boards and poles of the pole barn.

    11.) Anchor bolts. You want to plan these out for adequate retention of your walls.

    12.) Rebar, mesh, fiber reinforced concrete. You need to research what works best in your area. I have had phenominal luck with fiber reinforced concrete (3000# mix with air). 4000# is stronger, but harder to finish due to aggragate size. I don't think I will ever have anything that exceed 3000#/sq foot, other than when the mother inlaw comes over. LOL

    Have 3 plans. Plan A: What I need now Plan B: What I need tomorrow
    Plan C: What I really want.
    Follow plan C. Eventually , you will spend tons more money trying to update and not ever be satisfied that you didn't do it the right way first. To many compromises.
    Jeff

    Scrap metal made....while you wait!

    The difference between a difficult problem and an easy problem, is having the answer!

  5. #5
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    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    Man, am I the only one with a filthy shop? Nice digs Zonk!

    I think I'm going to get a complex..
    Jeff

    Scrap metal made....while you wait!

    The difference between a difficult problem and an easy problem, is having the answer!

  6. #6

    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    Thanks,that picture is alittle old you, don't want to see it now.... Good info on concrete work.... Ok a question how big can you put a garage or shop on a floating slab ( no footings). My first garage built was 24x30 on a floating slab. Asked the city engineer he thought biggest a person should go. Poured the whole floor on shot,no joints 4000 lb test concrete with wire mesh.Never cracked in the 10 years I lived there.

  7. #7
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    Concrete totally depends on the part of the country you are in. Here in FL the ground is so sandy. When I asked my concrete guy what I need to do to get a crack free floor, he said I needed to pour it in the mountains of Montana. LOL!

    I agree with Jeff on the control joints. Your concrete is 99% likely to crack. It is up to you where it cracks. LOL!

    As for the conduit, you can run your cable, telephone, network, etc.. through one conduit as long as you use sheilded cable. Just don't ever run it in the power conduit (which is a code violation anyway.)

    I also think one of the most important things to think about ahead of time is door placement. Like Zonk said, most people just stick it in the middle. On a wide building that you could pull in and park on both sides, that would be fine. But you really have to think where you are going to park things and put benches, etc.. before placing your doors.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  8. #8
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    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    Glenn-
    We went to Florida Tech (I think was the name...in Melbourne) to look over thier college. My daughter is interested in civil/structural engineering. Their engineering program was mainly a civil, focusing on water projects. Not what she was looking for. Anyways, they have a structural program. What a joke. Walking through the campus, you could see all the structural faults in the buildings. The sidewalks were terrible. Like they never heard of mirafy fabric. (Soil stabilization fabric) 12" of tamped stone over the fabric, and you can lay train tracks in a swamp. The stairs were a joke. 3/4" deflection when one or two people walked up the steps!!!!
    Jeff

    Scrap metal made....while you wait!

    The difference between a difficult problem and an easy problem, is having the answer!

  9. #9
    Registered User Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    Sad! Just sad. No different than a paint job, the prep is the most important part.


    Oh, and for the record. 4000 sq ft and I have one tiny hairline crack.
    Glenn H. Shelton III
    My Garage Pics

  10. #10

    Re: Making informed decisions when building your ultimate garage/shop (Article Develop.)

    Something else on the heat and air conditioning, what type of heat and any duct work invoved, how and where to run them. Do you want to have a seperate enclosed room for air compresser to keep noise down. Small seperate office involved? Permits--- what permits are needed and from whom. No matter what the size is your thinking,maybe look at what vehicles you are going to be putting in and measure their length and width and see if you are allowing enough room for what your intentions are. A 24 by 24 or 24 by 26 garage may seem big at first but you put a couple of full size vehicles in not much room.
    Also how wide your overhead doors and 1-2 singles or one 16-18 foot wide. Also any storage area up above in your rafters how and where to access.
    Last edited by zonk; 08-22-2006 at 01:51 PM.

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